Pitt Saying "No" to Nova?

I agree that Temple is improving. Golden started building up the program and one can only hope that Addazio continues the trend.

I disagree about Nova. Too many people are comparing this with UConn’s situation in the early 2000’s. The situation is completely different. First off, UConn is the only FBS program in the state. Villanova is competing with Penn State, Pitt, and Temple in Pennsylvania. Secondly, UConn is a state-funded school while Nova is private. UConn didn’t have to get nearly as much in donations from alumni to help boost up the athletics budget because they received money from the state government while Villanova must rely entirely upon donations. Finally, while there aren’t boatloads of FBS recruits coming out of either state, as compared with Florida or Texas, the fact that UConn is the only FBS team in Connecticut means that most of the top prospects in CT will most likely head there. As I said above, the top recruits in PA will head to Penn State, Pitt, or another nearby big FBS school. I just see too many differences to say that Villanova would work out as well as UConn has.

Philly could be a college football town, but there’s already so many other sports teams in Philly. Throw in the fact that there is little college football tradition in Philadelphia and I don’t know if the people in Philly would be quick to follow a college team. College basketball at least has tradition and history of being successful. It would take years and several consecutive winning seasons culminated with bowl wins. Something I don’t feel the Big East can afford to wait for right now.

I think the Big East inviting Marquette and DePaul were bad moves from the start. While Marquette has at least had some success in the conference, DePaul has been a disaster. They’re both also the current furthest outliers (although TCU will be that in 2012, but they have football, so they get a pass). I doubt the Big East will say good bye to Providence or Seton Hall, two founding members of the conference, but they should also be the next two to leave. They haven’t done much for the conference since the new configuration of the Big East.

The other three schools I’m not sure of. I don’t know if Army and/or Navy would be willing to jump ship. I know they enjoy their independence and I can’t see them giving it up now to play a Big East schedule rather than a national schedule. How would having 12 members affect the Army/Navy game? They like being the finale to college football’s regular season, something they won’t be able to do if they join a conference. UCF would be a solid pickup, though I would like to see at least one or two more seasons like last year. Houston is interesting. But UCF and Houston both have a similar problem in that their states are saturated with FBS programs. Yes, they bring a decent sized media market, but how many people in that state actually watch either team?

If the Big 12 allows Texas to broadcast high school games on the Longhorn Network (it has been put on hold for a year), expect the conference to fall apart. The conference is already the Texas show; had they gone to the Pac-12 last year, there would be no Big 12 currently. Right now, it would be unlikely that the Big East takes either KU or KSU but if Texas gets their way, keep an eye out for what happens.

Pederson says unless the league makes itself better, teams will continue to be the target of conference expansion.

None of the ‘available’ options would a great deal right now. If they conference wants to add quality and not merely quantity, they’re best served to look outside the box in terms of geography and head farther West as they did with TCU.

Temple has certainly improved recently. But I wouldn’t say that keeping close with Temple indicates success at the FBS level

There’s no doubt that Nova got the raw end of the deal on getting invited, then ditched – no question at all.

I also have no problem saying Villanova could compete in the MAC or another non-BCS conference – so if the argument is that they could be an FBS team, I think that’s possible. But that said, they’d have their hands full with even lesser Big East teams like Rutgers or Louisville. That’s not to say they couldn’t get to that level, but I’d be hard pressed to call them a Big East team. Schools like Rutgers who have finished near the bottom of the conference recently are still able to pull in five-star recruits on occasion. Could Nova get there with the same resources? Sure – but it would take a while.

Realistically, there’s a bigger jump to a quality FBS conference than I think some people realize – and even though the Big East is at the bottom of the BCS schools, they’re still one of the better FBS conferences when you count all the bottom-feeders.

One example you can look at from last season is New Hampshire. Nova lost to them by a touchdown and Pitt, in a somewhat down year, beat them by 22 without Dion Lewis, their best player.

Again, Nova could compete perhaps in the MAC, but the Big East is a bit more of a jump.

In all seriousness, I think that’s actually why the Big East is being a bit selective in who they take – because it’s such a weak conference.

The Big East can’t afford to take just anyone and before they expand are going to make sure they can’t get some more established programs first. Snootiness I can live without, but there is something to be said for legitimately trying to add good programs to make the conference better instead of adding three lower-level programs just to get to a championship game.

That said, I definitely can understand their frustration over Pitt apparently leading the charge to keep them out.

I think Nova could eventually get there, but it would take some time. Right now, no, I don’t think they can compete with teams like Louisville and Rutgers. In five years? Maybe.

That ties into the Big East’s line of thinking, in my opinion. They want to have expansion wrapped up by 2012 and don’t want to wait for a program to grow. The conference is pretty weak right now and waiting for an FCS program to get off the ground might not be in their best interests.

I do agree with the assessment that Nova would compete for recruits, but I have a hard time believing that’s the reason they’re being held out right now.

Regarding the ACC, this is no knock to Nova, but I can’t see that conference taking them over Pitt. Pitt has a far superior football program and while there’s some room for debate on the basketball side, matchups like Pitt/UNC or Pitt/Duke would be something that would have the ACC drooling. The other factor, as you mention, is the inclusion of other teams. If UConn and Syracuse ever jumped ship, Pitt’s rivalries with those teams are a bit stronger than Nova’s rivalries with them.

I seriously doubt that Villanova gets invited to the ACC without FBS football. The ACC isn’t going to invite an FCS program to join them in all sports. Frankly, the only reason Villanova is being considered in the first place is because they’re in the Big East in all other sports. As for smaller media market, have you been to Connecticut? Not a big media market and I don’t think that the ACC would believe that UConn can deliver the NYC market, even with Syracuse on board. If the ACC were to invite teams, Syracuse and Pitt would be the first 2 if they go to 14, throw in Rutgers and UConn if they go to 16. All 4 have great academics, have FBS football and good-sized media markets, plus besides Rutgers are all great in basketball.

As for holding the conference together, why? If the conference is going to add more full members, there’s going to be a split. I can’t see a situation where a 10/18 team conference or a 12/20 team conference works out well. Too many teams to split up the conference revenue and too many different agendas. Sooner or later, the football teams are going to leave in my opinion. If the Big East can get rid of some of the weaker schools (Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul) and one other school (Marquette?), a 12/16 team conference would probably work out well, but Marinatto said that he doesn’t want to get rid of teams.

I think if you got the general impression from college basketball fans around the country, they’d say that Pitt’s rivalries with those teams are more intense than Nova’s rivalries with them. But maybe that’s my own biased view. The basketball side is debatable.

Regarding football, we’ll have to disagree on that one. Competitive against the majority of the Big East? Like I said, I think they’d have tough contests with Rutgers and Louisville. I don’t see any way they’d beat Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, Cincinnati, UConn, or USF. As much progress as Villanova may have made in football, they were a pedestrian 9-5 last year in the FCS and lost games to New Hampshire, Temple, Rhode Island, William & Mary, and Eastern Washington. I have a really hard time believing most Big East teams would lose to one of those schools, let alone all five in one season.

I understand they’ve been better than that in the preceding years, but in the last five, their best win came against Temple. They also were soundly defeated in most of their FBS matches against West Virginia (27-point loss), Maryland (17-point loss), and UCF (19-point loss) in the past five years. Sorry, but in the limited sample size I’ve seen, no way am I convinced they’d compete well in the Big East – let alone beat most of the teams.

We can disagree on football but it seems to me that you are ignoring that Nova has 20 less schollys, plays in the FCS and a has smaller coaching staff. Give them the 20 schollys and D1A status for recruiting and the larger staff and those losses turnaround quickly.

I think I said that in previous posts when I said they may get there – I just don’t think they’re there now. And like I said earlier, I think the Big East wants a ready-made program.

There’s a post going up tomorrow about Villanova moving up to the FBS – check it out…I think it’s a much harder move than you might think.